Akio Hasegawa's interview series "Don't work seriously!! (tentative title) Vol.02 Toshiyuki Tsai Part 2

長谷川昭雄の対談連載まじめに働いてんじゃねーよ!!(仮) Vol.02 蔡俊行後編

2024.12.26

Photo： Seishi Shirakawa (Main)

Edit： Ryo Komuta

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This is a serial project in which fashion director and stylist Akio Hasegawa has serious conversations with experts from various fields about their work. His second partner is Toshiyuki Tsai, editor-in-chief of our website "Commune H" and CEO of Rhino Co., Ltd., which runs "HOUYHNHNM". The conversation was lively, ranging from old stories about the magazine "POPEYE", a common topic, to the latest about print media.

PROFILE

Akio Hasegawa

Fashion director and stylist. He has been involved in the production of the British magazine "MONOCLE" since its launch and built the foundation for its fashion pages. In 2014, he became the magazine's fashion director. He also served as the fashion director of the magazine "Popeye" from 2012 to the fall of 2018. In 2019, he launched the fashion web magazine "AH.H" in collaboration with Houyhnhnm.

Tsai Toshiyuki

Editor. Editor-in-chief of "Commune H", publisher and general editor-in-chief of "HOUYHNHNM". Representative of Rhino Co., Ltd.

The talk took place at "ØC Tokyo," a restaurant that Hasegawa-san has been frequenting recently. The talk lasted more than four hours, over a beautiful vegetable-focused course meal and delicious natural wine.

Houyhnhnm

I'd like to hear more about the New England edition of POPEYE.

蔡

(While flicking through the pages) That's right, the location for the film is an island called Martha's Vineyard. You get there by ferry from Cape Cod, and one of the reasons I planned the film is because I wanted to go there (laughs).

Hasegawa

What happened to the model girls?

蔡

I auditioned in New York.

Hasegawa

I see. But you can't take them from Japan, right?

蔡

By the way, the person who coordinated this was Tanabe Ryota .

Hasegawa

During this period, you were the coordinator for the New York location shooting of "POPEYE."

蔡

That's right. That was the first time I met Ryota. Apparently Yoshio Suzuki had worked with Ryota a few times before that. Ryota and I are the same age and we got along well, and we're still friends today. At the time, I think he was working on not only POPEYE, but most of the magazines from Magazine House.

Hasegawa

Do you usually go to New York?

蔡

That's right. On the East Coast, there was Ryota, and on the West Coast, there was someone called Kazoo. I think those two were the ones who were in charge of coordination. Now that I think about it, I had a stylist called Yamashita Rika-chan accompany me on location as an assistant at that time. She was a former stylist for Olive. She was living in New York at the time. I think she was also introduced to me through Yoshio-san.

Houyhnhnm

The photographer for the fashion visuals is Murabayashi (Masao).

蔡

He was a company photographer at the time. He was a difficult guy (lol), but the photos he took were great.

Hasegawa

The photos taken by company photographers from this era are truly amazing.

蔡

Yeah. It's good.

Hasegawa

This combination of REDWING and sweatshirt is really good. When you match REDWING, you end up with something like 501, right? Instead, you paired it with sweatshirt, which is still very cool even now.

蔡

When Hasegawa-kun says something like that, it kind of gives me goosebumps (laughs).

Hasegawa

It's really cool. Everyone around me is influenced by it. It was really powerful.

蔡

Really? I'd be grateful if that were the case.

Houyhnhnm

Did you do a lot of styling work like this back then?

蔡

No, I didn't do it that much, but I think he said that since this was his project, it would be quicker if he did it himself. Like, "Hey, Tsai, you can do it, right?"

Hasegawa

There were quite a lot of bodies, so I imagine you brought a huge amount of clothes.

蔡

But I don't think they made a carnet, or was I wrong?

Hasegawa

What happened to the dog on the cover?

蔡

I think I borrowed it from someone who was walking around the area. I was like, "Bring your dog tomorrow!" (laughs)

Hasegawa

It says golden retriever, 4 years old.

蔡

That's a story I just made up (laughs). The prose poems on the pages are all just something I wrote from my imagination (laughs).

Hasegawa

There was only one set of footprints on this beach, so it must have been taken in one go.

蔡

That may be true. You have a professional way of looking at things (laughs). As we were talking, I gradually started to remember. I was also very careful in selecting the photos.

Hasegawa

I read this issue when I was in high school, and since I was reading it very seriously back then, it really etched itself in my mind.

Houyhnhnm

The interview page is also very comprehensive.

蔡

It was an area where I used to live, so I was familiar with a lot of the places, which was probably a good thing.

Hasegawa

In situations like this, do you have to make an appointment each time?

蔡

Yeah. Call before you go. Back then it was usually okay for this sort of thing, so it wasn't that difficult.

Houyhnhnm

Speaking of Tsai, you are probably familiar with NEW BALANCE. You have already written about Ralph Lauren.

蔡

Ah, the one that Ralph Lauren apparently wore.

Hasegawa

Eh? So that was something that Tsai wrote first?

蔡

Yes. I don't know if it's true or not (laughs). But I've seen pictures like that before. Well, there's no hidden meaning (laughs).

Hasegawa

Well, I think we were all influenced by that, by Tsai's nonsensical manuscript (laughs).

蔡

That's bullshit! Exactly (laughs). People around me also say, "That was tricked by Tsai-chan, wasn't it?" (laughs).

Houyhnhnm

There is a JAL page at the end of the feature, so it seems they received support.

蔡

That's true. I don't remember it at all. This photo is so good that it's a shame to use it in such a small size. I wonder if it's Murabayashi-san... Oh, it's Yoshio-san! Oh, Yoshio-san also likes photography and took some photos.

Hasegawa

There's a credit included.

蔡

That reminds me, there was a photographer called Joel Meyerowitz who Yoshio liked. He took photos of Cape Cod with an 8x10 camera. I remember buying his photo book before going on a business trip.

Hasegawa

Since it's difficult to travel abroad right now, maybe people want to see something like this in the media.

Houyhnhnm

I sometimes think about this, but I wonder which is it. Is it that it's difficult to go there, so it doesn't seem real to readers, and it's hard to get them interested?

Hasegawa

I think it's all about the way you communicate. It's about your sense. Even now, when I look at this issue, I'm still intrigued by it.

蔡

Maybe. I wrote a lot of headlines like this and stuff. It's embarrassing to look at now though.

Hasegawa

As I said earlier, I think the manuscripts of my predecessors, like Lily (Frankie)'s one-stroke manuscripts, and those of people who have been writing since the days of handwriting, are amazing because they have a clear concept for the sentences. They're on a different level.

蔡

It's nothing special, but before I started writing, I thought about what I wanted to write and what I wanted to convey. To do that, I thought about the introduction and the punch line before I started writing. Now I just start writing.

Hasegawa

That's right.

蔡

When I'm writing and thinking, sometimes something just comes to me. That leads to the punch line. That's when I feel good. If it didn't come to me, there would be no punch line (laughs).

Hasegawa

Oh, I really liked this big page too. The page about my master. This was also in the same issue. This issue is even more amazing.

Houyhnhnm

It's truly a legend.

蔡

I don't know what it's like now, but I think Magazine House used to attract a lot of interesting people.

Houyhnhnm

Is that freelance?

蔡

Both freelance and in-house editors. Nowadays, all the girls in the editorial departments love fashion and are very stylish. They're very chic. There were no girls like that in the old "POPEYE" (laughs).

Hasegawa

surely.

蔡

But I guess he has a good sense, and his guesses are always on point.

Hasegawa

I totally understand that.

蔡

It's not just about being smart or having a high academic background. I think that's why Magazine House can be called the best in Japan when it comes to magazine production.

This dish is made by chopping up black cabbage, an Italian variety similar to kale, and combining it with Chinese chives, then wrapping it in crepe batter like okonomiyaki. The sauce is made by charring about 10 kinds of vegetables.

Hasegawa

Paper is definitely better after all. I've been thinking about this more recently.

Houyhnhnm

You've also been styling for Monocle recently.

Hasegawa

That's right. As time passes and I get older, I start to see things differently. I'm also happy that everyone in London, including Tyler (Brulé, editor-in-chief of Monocle), is happy with my work.

蔡

Hasegawa-kun, how old are you now?

Hasegawa

It's 49.

蔡

That's a good age. You'll be reaching your milestone soon. I always think that stylists are amazing. People who make clothes are really great, but I think stylists and DJs are amazing. The reason is that without those people, things wouldn't be amplified any further. Everyone is amazing, but the value of stylists in particular is that they make you aware of new things.

Houyhnhnm

I've recently been feeling the merits and fun of paper. I had fun working on the leaflet for POLO RALPH LAUREN with Mr. Hasegawa for "AH.H", and it was a different kind of response to working on the web.

Hasegawa

I think the good thing about the web is the speed, but I also think there's another good thing about paper. You're currently making a newspaper ("HANG OUT"). That's really great.

蔡

Oh, really?

Hasegawa

I especially liked the second one.

蔡

That ridiculous one (special feature: drinking, gambling, and buying) (laughs). I don't think it's bad, but I want to do something about it. I want to surprise people more.

Hasegawa

It's just a small headline or something, nothing spectacular, but it draws you in.

蔡

Ah, that's one I wrote (laughs).

Hasegawa

There's something about the way he uses words that really grabs your attention.

Houyhnhnm

Since it's a newspaper, some pages are 15 columns long.

蔡

There are times when the setting is more important than the content of what is written. It's like "Tensei Jingo." I want to be particular about that.

Hasegawa

I think it's important to find those little details interesting. Nowadays, convenience stores don't stock magazines, do they? I think fashion probably became popular because of convenience stores. Fashion became so popular in Japan because of the convenience of convenience stores, not bookstores.

Houyhnhnm

I think I can totally understand that.

Hasegawa

Paper absolutely has value, and I'm sure Tsutaya Bookstore would love to spread the joy of paper.

蔡

Didn't Hasegawa-kun do something too?

Houyhnhnm

You publish a magazine and apparel under the brand CAHLUMN , and do pop-ups at Tsutaya bookstores across the country, including in Daikanyama, Ginza, and Kyoto.

Hasegawa

So I think it would be good for "Fuihnam" to do something like that. To convey culture. I don't think there's any other place that supports that kind of thing as much as Tsutaya Bookstore.

蔡

That's true. Now, having come full circle, I think this kind of paper is interesting.

Houyhnhnm

There is also talk of compiling all the articles published so far in "AH.H".

Hasegawa

However, putting all that together again is so hard, so I wondered if there was a better way to do it. I felt like doing that would take up the whole of my life.

蔡

That's the kind of thing an editor has to think about. Well, magazines are still tough. I think they'll stop at some point. But I think media aimed at women in their 40s and 50s is doing well.

Houyhnhnm

There are also magazines aimed at people in their 60s and up.

Hasegawa

The other day I saw a magazine with Hisako Manda on the cover at a convenience store. If there is a medium like that, it means there is a demand for it.

蔡

Well, that's true.

Houyhnhnm

``ku:nel'' is also heading in that direction now.

蔡

That's right. It's a magazine with a wide range of topics.

Hasegawa

I wonder if it's similar to the old "Croissant" or something like that.

蔡

Ah, I see.

Hasegawa

I think that magazines like that should be updated more. The times are constantly updating. For example, I think that topics like "natural" and "natural" that are often covered in media aimed at older women are now quite popular among young people. Natural wine is originally close to the spirit of anti-establishment and punk.

Houyhnhnm

That's right.

Hasegawa

For young people, it's also a level of rebellion against politics. If you look at it that way, I wonder if there are other ways of expressing yourself. But no one is doing anything like that, and it's just treated as something warm and fuzzy. For example, if you think about the current Seed Law, it could be seen as a counterculture. Speaking of fashion, I feel like fashion people are surprisingly confined to fashion. Is that why it's stagnating?

蔡

Maybe so.

Hasegawa

On the other hand, I think that many of the people who gather at places like "ØC Tokyo" have that kind of mentality. On the other hand, I feel like young people aren't gathering in the fashion world. There are more interesting people in the food and beverage world. So I think we need to change our perspective a little. I think it would be more interesting if we could successfully incorporate the energy of the food and beverage world into the fashion world.

蔡

I think I understand. It feels like new people are constantly coming into the food and beverage industry, but people in the fashion industry don't seem to change much. I also feel like there's a generational gap. It's unique.

Hasegawa

The same goes for how people make money. They haven't created any new ways to make money in fashion.

蔡

Fashion keeps going round and round. People still say that the visuals in this issue are great or whatever (laughs).

Hasegawa

We haven't been able to turn that interest into money. If you go to Jimbocho, you can find a lot of this old information, but it's not being used effectively. I think we need to update our knowledge. There must be a way to do that, but I feel like no one in the fashion or publishing industry thinks about that.

蔡

I see.

Hasegawa

This kind of old POPEYE information hasn't been digitized, has it?

蔡

Yeah, you can't search for it.

Hasegawa

That’s right. That’s why the fake manuscript for “NEW BALANCE” that Tsai wrote doesn’t even come out (laughs).

蔡

lol

Hasegawa

Including such things, if the written word remains as data, it will become knowledge, and after decades, it will eventually become culture and create a culture. I think about this sometimes, but when it comes to actually doing it, it's a tough job, so it's quite difficult. It's a shame. But maybe that's why it's kept secret and hasn't been stolen by others.

A crepe topped with a gently sweet homemade bean paste made from high-quality, pesticide-free red beans from Hokkaido, brown sugar from Okinawa, and island brown sugar from Kikaijima. Finished with mugwort powder made from young Japanese mugwort leaves.

Houyhnhnm

I think it will be interesting if the series " Style Resume " in "Commune H" accumulates content from various people in the future. It would be good to compile all of that.

蔡

Or so I think. I know I should hear about it while I can, but I have to.

Hasegawa

That's true, isn't it? Yodogawa (Miyoko, former editor-in-chief of "anan", "Olive", "GINZA" and "ku:nel", passed away in 2021) was a perfect example. I had told the person who was the editor-in-chief of "GINZA" before that I should interview her. But before I knew it, she passed away.

蔡

Yodogawa and I were fairly close in our later years, but we only ever talked about trivial things.

Hasegawa

Even I, a woman, thought that the "anan" magazine that Yodogawa-san was in was cool. That was Yodogawa-san's individuality.

蔡

Everyone in the "Dads' Club" wants to hear your story.

Hasegawa

That's nice.

蔡

Shigematsu (Osamu, Honorary Chairman of UNITED ARROWS), Shitara (Hiroshi, CEO of BEAMS), and Hata (Yoshiichiro, formerly of Magazine House).

Houyhnhnm

That's true. As a reader, I really want to read it. Well, let's wrap it up now. We've been talking for about four hours now. Including the stories I can't write (laughs).

蔡

That's right. I was happy to receive so many compliments today (laughs). Thank you.

Hasegawa

Thank you very much. It was fun. I've always wanted to talk about the New England with you.

INFORMATION

ØC Tokyo

Address: 5-27-16 Kitazawa, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo
Business hours: 9:00-22:00 (last orders 21:00 *On days when only the cafe is open, it closes at 20:00)
*Dinner schedule can be found at @octokyodinner
Instagram: ØC tokyo