Akio Hasegawa's interview series "Don't work seriously!! (tentative title) Vol.03 Yuuki Souma Part 1"

長谷川昭雄の対談連載まじめに働いてんじゃねーよ!!(仮) Vol.03 相馬夕輝前編

2025.7.9

Edit： Ryo Komuta

This is a serial project in which fashion director and stylist Akio Hasegawa has serious conversations with experts from various fields about their work. It's been a while since the last update, but this time our partner is Yuuki Soma, the director of the food and beverage department of "D&DEPARTMENT PROJECT" and the one who pre-opened the online members-only supermarket "Table to Farm" last fall. We will be sharing various food-related topics in two parts.

PROFILE

Akio Hasegawa

Fashion director and stylist. He has been involved in the production of the British magazine "MONOCLE" since its launch and built the foundation for its fashion pages. In 2014, he became the magazine's fashion director. He served as the fashion director of the magazine "POPEYE" from 2012 to the fall of 2018. In 2019, he will launch the fashion web magazine "AH.H" in collaboration with Houyhnhnm, and in 2023, "CAHLUMN" and "andreM hoffwann".

Yuuki Soma

Originally from Shiga Prefecture. As the director of the "Tsuduku wo Taberu Club" food and beverage division of "D&DEPARTMENT PROJECT," he travels around Japan to develop menus that utilize local ingredients and food culture, and also plans events. In 2024, he published his first book, "Tsuduku wo Taberu Shokudo," which summarizes his activities in the food industry. On October 29, 2024, he will pre-open the online members-only supermarket "Table to Farm."

The setting for this conversation was the CAHLUMN STORE in Ochanomizu, the base of CAHLUMN, the brand that Hasegawa directs.

At this place that offers not only clothing but also food, we had the opportunity to speak to them about all manner of food-related topics, including agriculture, fishing, producers, and more.

Houyhnhnm

This "CAHLUMN STORE" uses some of the ingredients that are sold through "Table to Farm," but first, could you please explain what " Table to Farm " is?

Hasegawa

Is it like an online select shop?

Soma

Yes, that's right. It might be better to call it a supermarket rather than a select shop.

Houyhnhnm

According to the release, this is a supermarket where you can experience the "simple taste" of which only 0.1% is currently distributed. The "simple taste" refers to the "exceptional deliciousness" that is born from the interweaving of nature and people encountered during travels. We heard that they are also considering opening an actual store in the future.

Photo_Ayumi Mineoka

Soma

Yes. I think that starting online was the first phase. I don't think there has ever been an initiative like this before. In other words, it was an attempt to properly deliver safe products to our members.

Hasegawa

Yeah, yeah.

Soma

"Table to Farm" is also a membership-based service, but I think it needs to be carefully designed so as not to lean too much towards economic rationality, such as the number of members.

Hasegawa

Is it still closed now?

Soma

As it is currently in pre-opening mode, it is by introduction only, with the official launch taking place on Friday, July 25th. There are two reasons for making it a members-only system. The first is that we don't want to open it up too much and end up becoming something completely different from what we had originally envisioned.

The other is the food system, and we created "Table to Farm" as a place where consumers can take action related to production through the choices and concrete actions of those who eat at their dinner tables. In doing this, producers say the biggest problem is when people come to the production site as if they are tourists. We decided that a certain level of trust would be best, so we opted for a membership-based approach .

Hasegawa

Rice is a big issue these days, isn't it? In that situation, people are divided into those who want to eat delicious food and those who just want something cheap.

Houyhnhnm

A while ago, there was a story about Sukiya , which uses 100% domestic rice, and Yoshinoya , which uses a blend of mainly domestic and imported rice (some stores only use domestic rice).

Soma

Yes, there was.

Photo_Daisuke Takashige

Hasegawa

I'm in the world of clothing, so I've noticed that Japanese-made clothes are disappearing for quite some time. But I've always felt that it's a bad thing. The reason why Japanese-made clothes are good is because they support the country's own industry and create jobs. I've always liked New Balance, and I only recently realized why. It's because they still make American-made shoes. It's not that they're good because they're made in America, but I think it's important that they're an American brand making shoes in America and that they're trying to protect their own country's industry.

Soma

I think I understand.

Hasegawa

There's talk about making school lunches organic, and I'd love to see that happen.

Houyhnhnm

You want your children to eat safe food.

Hasegawa

I think that in both the world of clothing and the world of agriculture, a culture has been created where strange things are used to make strange things. I think it would be better if everyone thought a little more about eating proper food. In that sense, I think what "Table to Farm" is doing is a great thing.

Soma

thank you.

Photo_Daisuke Takashige

Houyhnhnm

How do you come across your ingredients?

Soma

I just try as many things as I can. I have time to do that every week. For example, I narrow down the conditions to a certain extent, like "natural brewing," and decide what to try, but I just collect them and eat them. I don't look at the brand, I just keep eating them blind and choose the one I like.

Houyhnhnm

By blind, do you mean you want to choose without any preconceived ideas?

Soma

That's right. I think the world tends to be made up of information.

Hasegawa

Yes, there is.

Soma

Even if something is highly acclaimed, there are times when we feel unsure when we eat it. However, that may just be because our taste buds just didn't respond to it, so of course I don't think it's all our fault.

Hasegawa

Your sense of taste is greatly influenced by the mood you are in, isn't it?

Soma

Yes, there is. It's difficult, isn't it? It may seem similar, but it's not the same. But after doing it a few times, it starts to average out. I also think it's surprisingly important to work with people who have completely different tastes. If you get together with people who have the same taste, or who only eat naturally fermented foods, you tend to come to the same conclusion.

Houyhnhnm

I see.

Soma

So I think that if there is someone with a different palate, the taste might be judged correctly. One of the staff members who is an engineer at "Table to Farm" says that he usually only eats meat. He said that he couldn't eat vegetables at all, but for some reason he could eat the vegetables collected at "Table to Farm". In other words, I realized that it wasn't that he didn't like vegetables themselves, but that he didn't like vegetables under certain conditions. I knew that it must be pesticides.

Hasegawa

Wow.

Soma

Perhaps the sense of taste that we are born with remains unchanged forever.

Houyhnhnm

From here on, let's talk while enjoying the food served at "CAHLUMN STORE." We will also be speaking with TOMO, who is in charge of cooking at "CAHLUMN STORE."

Hasegawa

The leaf in the middle is Mikawashima greens, sourced from Ome Farm . It is said to have been introduced from Nagoya during the Edo period. There is a place called Mikawashima in Adachi Ward, which was apparently a farming area during the Edo period, and it was cultivated there. When you eat it, it tastes a bit like spinach.

Soma

It is topped with additive-free dried small sardines from Hokatsu Bay in Ehime Prefecture. The taro is made with additive-free ingredients from Oita Prefecture and topped with soy meat in a minced meat sauce. The pickled plums are made with pesticide-free Kishu Nanko plums from Kumano, Wakayama Prefecture, pickled in honey.

Soma

They are all delicious.

Hasegawa

The lotus root used in the kinpira is pesticide-free and comes from TANOSIMU RENCON in Tsuchiura, Ibaraki.

Hasegawa

This has a rather unique texture. It's crisp, but also a little soft. The chikuwa is "Hyakunen Chikuwa" from "Suzuhiro Kamaboko" in Odawara, and is additive-free. The salt on the right is " 100ZEN Sea Salt " from Yamaguchi Prefecture, which I bought at "Table to Farm," and on the left is Maldon salt from England. No matter how much Maldon salt you add, it never becomes unpleasantly salty. It's said that the key is magnesium.

These rice balls are made using Kame no O, a rice variety from Yamagata that is the origin of many brand-name rice.

TOMO

This salad is made with reduced-pesticide kale from Ota City, Gunma Prefecture (we currently use kale from Ome Farm in Ome). The Kuroda 5-inch carrots, simply grilled with olive oil and salt, are from Ome Farm. The same carrots are used in a slaw, dressed with Shiranui, a citrus fruit grown without pesticides in Kumamoto. New potatoes from Hokkaido are also grown without pesticides. It is topped with organically grown dried fruit purchased from GAIA.

Houyhnhnm

The vegetable flavor is strong.

Hasegawa

That's right. It's completely different.

Soma

I recently went to Kuwana in Mie Prefecture. I heard that the nori seaweed served at this restaurant is also from Kuwana. While there, I met with a producer of " Ise Asakusa Nori ." This Asakusa Nori is a species that is hard to find. It is much weaker than the commonly available Susabinori, and grows more slowly.

Houyhnhnm

It's quite a valuable seaweed.

Soma

That's right. To begin with, the amount of seaweed is decreasing. It's decreasing in the famous Ariake area, and also in Kuwana. However, it seems that the amount of seaweed in Hyogo hasn't decreased as much as you might expect. When I asked why the amount of seaweed is decreasing, I was told that one reason is that organic matter in the mountains is gradually decreasing due to the development of dams. Another reason is that organic matter, including human feces and urine, is purified with incredible precision, so they have started releasing "plain water" with no ingredients into the sea.

If that happens, the concentration of organic matter in the ocean will decrease, and naturally seaweed will not be able to survive, and the number of small fish will also decrease. Everything humans are doing to clean up the ocean has backfired. So Hyogo Prefecture is conducting a demonstration experiment on nutrient management operation at sewage treatment plants, and it seems that nutrients from land are reaching seaweed fishing grounds, and it has been confirmed that they are having an impact on color and yield. As for seaweed, it seems that Hyogo has already surpassed Ariake in production.

Hasegawa

I see. I also passed through Kuwana when I went to Ise on a business trip recently.

Soma

Ah, I see. The area is filled with three huge rivers, the Nagara River, the Ibi River, and the Kiso River, and apparently the amount of organic matter there is overwhelmingly different, far more than even the Ariake Sea or Hyogo Prefecture. So, in principle, it's a given that the best seaweed can be harvested there.

Hasegawa

That's interesting.

Soma

However, the number of fishermen has decreased dramatically. However, it seems that seaweed fishermen can make more money than regular fishermen.

Hasegawa

I've heard that story at sushi restaurants. Almost everyone at sushi restaurants starts talking about seaweed. Everyone talks about how important seaweed is, and how the seaweed we sell is from here. It's a tough business because food is also intertwined with various vested interests.

Soma

That's right. In areas surrounding fishing, there is always the issue of fishing rights. Even if young people want to get involved, they can't because they don't have the rights. The older generation who have the rights won't give them up easily, so it's difficult in that respect. The younger generation understands that we need to properly limit fishing and do various things while restoring the ecosystem, but those who will be retiring in about 5 to 10 years aren't interested in things that will happen so far into the future.

Hasegawa

Ah, I see.

Soma

Young people have a sense that fishing won't continue unless they approach it with an agricultural mindset. On the other hand, older people were completely hunters. They made a living by collecting what was in front of them, so there is a difference. So things probably won't change for another 20 years or so, but looking at the current state of the ocean, it's said that in 20 years there won't be any seaweed left.

Photo_Ayumi Mineoka

Houyhnhnm

When you travel around the country listening to producers' stories, the critical situation becomes clear.

Soma

That's right. The next 10 to 20 years are a very important period. If there is less seaweed, there will be less small fish and less fish, so it's all connected. There is a growing awareness that we need to change, and those who feel this sense of crisis are running businesses that combine aquaculture, and of course, they are cooperating with researchers for sustainability. For example, scallops are being farmed very successfully in Hokkaido. Kelp is quite difficult. Farmed kelp is completely different from wild kelp.

Houyhnhnm

I just checked and found out that over 90% of domestically produced kelp comes from Hokkaido.

Soma

Yes. Until now, wild kelp could be harvested properly in places like Rausu, Hidaka, and Rishiri, but since last year or so, it has become difficult to harvest wild kelp in all areas. It seems that areas where ma konbu can be harvested started farming early.

Hasegawa

These kinds of environmental issues don't directly affect consumers, so people who aren't interested in food probably think it's a really trivial issue. But for example, when it comes to the problem of marine plastic, everyone eats sashimi, doesn't they? It's also an issue that affects salt, and as you said earlier, many things are connected. I think a lot of things would change if everyone changed their perception of what they eat. Everyone is just too uninterested (laughs).

Photo_Ayumi Mineoka

Houyhnhnm

When did you become interested in food, Soma-san?

Soma

It was after I joined "D&DEPARTMENT". I was about 23 years old at the time, and there was a very interesting senior who taught me about the aesthetics and sense of beauty in restaurants, and from there I became interested. He was very interested in what kind of customers were spending what kind of time in the restaurant. So restaurants were the first place I became interested in food. In the midst of all that, I opened a restaurant ( d47 Shokudo ) in Shibuya Hikarie and started meeting producers, which may have been what prompted me to start thinking about ingredients.

Hasegawa

You are the director of the food department at "D&DEPARTMENT", right?

Soma

Yes, I've been doing it for over 10 years and I'm still doing it.

Hasegawa

Nowadays, there are more and more people who are particular about natural foods, but I think it's important to clearly state where the ingredients are from. It makes it easier to hook people, and it makes it easier to understand in the first place. It's also good for producers. "Table to Farm" is doing that kind of thing.

Houyhnhnm

It's also important in the world of clothing. Rather than just selling a T-shirt, it's important to clearly communicate that it was made with a certain material and with a certain thought behind it.

Hasegawa

That's right. It may be that the buyer should do more research, but there are people who can't or don't research that much, so I think it's important to properly input the correct information.

Soma

I think so. We just want to be an entry point. We have our own reasons for choosing these ingredients, but we just want to be a starting point for customers who are wondering, "What kind of eggs are good?" That's why we've organized the list here. After that, you can choose based on your taste preferences. I think that if you see what we've selected, you'll be able to see things with a higher resolution when you go to the supermarket.

Hasegawa

That's true.

Soma

Of course, I would love for people to try it once, buy it again, and use it regularly in their daily lives, but there's no reason why you have to buy it from Table to Farm.

Houyhnhnm

The majority of people buy their goods at large supermarkets, so things will change if good quality products start to appear in such places.

Soma

It seems that in Japan, distribution is too strong, or rather, supermarkets are too strong. For example, the rules for expiration dates are quite vague, and the manufacturer tests the number of bacteria and sets a date that they think will be okay. However, it is up to them to decide whether to actually use that date or set it a little shorter.

Houyhnhnm

I've heard of it.

Soma

In order to extend the expiration date, additives are added to stabilize the product and extend the sales period. It's always for the convenience of the supermarket. The current situation is that the mindset of selling takes precedence over the mindset of making.

To be continued in the second part.

INFORMATION

Table to Farm

https://tabletofarm.jp

Opening date: July 25, 2025 Format: Membership-based online supermarket
Membership fee: 5,500 yen (tax included) and up
"Simple Aji" contribution: 220 yen (tax included) / 2 weeks