Akio Hasegawa's interview series "Don't work seriously!! (tentative title) Vol.01 Yuji Machida Part 2
Hasegawa Akio is a highly active fashion director and stylist. In recent years, he has been making a pivotal move to incorporate ideas and moods from a variety of genres into his creations while still keeping fashion at the core. This series is a project in which Hasegawa, who is serious about his work, has serious conversations about "work" with experts from various fields. His first partner is his old friend Machida Yuji, editor-in-chief of POPEYE. Each episode will be in two parts.
PROFILE
Akio Hasegawa
Fashion director and stylist. He has been involved in the production of the British magazine "MONOCLE" since its launch and built the foundation for its fashion pages. In 2014, he became the magazine's fashion director. He also served as the fashion director of the magazine "Popeye" from 2012 to the fall of 2018. In 2019, he launched the fashion web magazine "AH.H" in collaboration with Houyhnhnm.
Yuji Machida
Editor-in-chief of "POPEYE". Joined Magazine House in 2001. After working in the editorial departments of "anan" and "BRUTUS", he assumed his current position at the end of 2019.
After the first part at the beach house "Papaya" on Yuigahama Beach in Kamakura, the second part moves to Kamakura's Italian restaurant "Osteria Comacina". With simple, flavorful dishes and a wide variety of wines, "Comacina" is a mysterious restaurant that is relaxing and exciting no matter when you go.
As a result, we ended up eating and drinking a lot, and had heated discussions about work, editing, and editors until late into the night.
Houyhnhnm
Houyhnhnm
Mr. Machida, do you ever go to the set of POPEYE?
Machida
Machida
No, I hardly ever go. But that's because I try not to go on purpose. Even if I go, it's not very useful (laughs). Also, everyone hates it, so it changes the dynamics on site. Actually, there are a lot of interviews I want to do. But if I really want to go to the site, I think it's better to plan it myself. After all, the site is fun, and I need to create more opportunities to go to the site.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
That's right.
Machida
Machida
It's been about five years since I left "BRUTUS" and came to "POPEYE", but up until now I've been working on cultivating the soil, so I think it's time to start. It all changes depending on who the editor-in-chief is and what kind of team we have. We're not making industrial products, so if the people change even a little, we can't make the same thing.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
There is. Yeah, I get it.
Machida
Machida
On the other hand, isn't it also the role of an editor to create something that works well at that time and with the people who are there?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
But if you don't gather good staff, you won't have a good magazine. If you gather a bunch of third-rate people, it will only be third-rate. I think an editor's job is to gather good staff. The rest is about combination. In "HUgE," (stylist Noguchi) Tsuyoshi often worked with (photographer) Ebisu. But even if I and Ebisu worked together, it wouldn't be like that, and we wouldn't be able to become like that. It's something that can only be done by that team.
Machida
Machida
This is especially true for fashion. Editors are in a position to direct, so even if the same page has the same theme and the same staff is working on it, the page will change depending on which editor is in charge. If they can't do that, there's no point in being there.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
Is that so? In my case, it doesn't really matter who is in charge. But a good editor can handle me well. In the old days of POPEYE, there was Naoko Kato. It was her who invited me and Shirayama (Haruhisa) to BRUTUS, and she supported us so much, and she had ideas, so I think everyone was influenced by her. And I think we were also able to tell her how to approach the shoot. The relationship between an editor and a stylist is important. I think that Kinoshita expanded that as it was in POPEYE until around 2018. So, in other words, even if you have a baton, if you are not interested in the work of the musicians you asked to do in the first place, it's meaningless because it won't develop. If the conductor and the musicians don't have the same image, no matter what song you play. In the first place, fashion photography is not a place with a lot of people like an orchestra, so if the conductor is not useful, there's no need to have him. It's a waste of money for lunch. But I think that's how the public thinks. It's common for apparel to have shoots that proceed without an editor. But that's why people lose respect for visuals. Even if you copy, I think the degree to which it is acceptable varies depending on the ratio of the mixture, the purpose, the timing of the era, and the medium. Fashion is a culture in which the value standard of whether it is good as a fashion photo is important, so it's not enough to just have clothes in the photo. You have to think about the photographer's artistic talent and what kind of photo it should be now, and you have to be able to discuss that with the photographer and the stylist, and isn't that the job of a fashion editor? Without that, all you'll end up with are copycat visuals with no policy. Does POPEYE currently have an editor who can create fashion pages?
Machida
Machida
In general terms, there is a fashion team and we also produce fashion issues, so there are editors who create pages. However, there may not be any editors who can get Hase-kun to do it anymore. What I like about Hase-kun is that he seems to do the same thing no matter what magazine or media he is working on. Maybe it's because he only does things that make sense to him, but you can tell right away when you look at the pages. I think the readers can tell too. I thought this when we worked together on "BRUTUS" a long time ago, that even though Hase-kun's page plans are different, his roots are still the same. He does the same thing over and over again without getting bored. To put it bluntly, he may be clumsy, but seeing him like that made me feel that I could trust him, and maybe that's where his originality came from.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
I think I'm pretty good at faking things with my clothes.
Machida
Machida
It's about making it look better.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
That's right, to make it look good (laughs). The presence of the photography team, including Shirakawa-kun, is also important. Everyone works with me until I'm satisfied that even bad clothes look good. Also, for "BRUTUS", I used about 30 pages to create follow-up pages for all my clients, so that really trained me. It was because of that that I was able to make "POPEYE". Young people should do "BRUTUS" first. I think it's better to do "POPEYE" after that. Everyone may think that "POPEYE" is something that young stylists do, but...
Machida
Machida
I see.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
I often hear this from people when they go shopping for clothes after seeing the visuals that Shirakawa and I created, but the photos and the actual thing are completely different (laughs).
Machida
Machida
It looked so good in the magazine (laughs).
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
That's something that's been created by the technical level of this team.
Machida
Machida
What does it mean to make your clothes look good?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
It's all a matter of personal opinion. It's just whether you think it's good or not.
Machida
Machida
What is it about it that you find so good? I'm sure there are many things, like the texture or the silhouette.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
It's the texture and the silhouette.
Machida
Machida
Lol. What's the size like?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
No, the sense of size is related to the silhouette and form. Basically, it's important to match it with the model. The size you choose will vary depending on the body type. After that, if I can capture an atmosphere that makes people want to buy this outfit, then the episode is over. I'll keep taking pictures until I get it.
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They use different squids depending on the season, and this summer they use red squid. The Sicilian wine "Vecchio Sanperi" gives it a unique flavor and aroma. Sautéed squid and maitake mushrooms ¥1,680
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
"Komachina" is really delicious after all.
Machida
Machida
It's nice, whenever you come.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
Yeah, it's simple, but really good.
Machida
Machida
By the way, when you look at clothes by themselves, what do you think looks good?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
I think simple clothes are best after all.
Machida
Machida
But there aren't a ton of simple clothes out there anymore. Is there still room for improvement?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
Well, I think people live their lives thinking that they have to do something. That's why most designers do a lot of designing. Stylists do too much styling. But isn't there also design without designing? I think that subtle differences like designing form and thinking about texture are important. As for me, I don't know about you guys, and I think freedom is good (laughs). I've gone through various eras and I've come to like wearing ordinary clothes casually. Even if it's designed clothes, I want to wear them casually.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
Maybe it's because I was a normal college student. I want to blend in with the city and I don't want to be eccentric. I don't want to be someone who looks overly fashionable when I meet friends who aren't interested in clothes. That may be why UNIQLO is so strong. Stripped-down clothes look better on everyone. The more you design and style, the more clothes you end up with that only look good on someone. But just changing something a little bit can make it look new. It's a matter of personal preference, so I have no say in what my friends and family wear, and I think everyone is free to wear whatever they want. I don't say anything about what kind of design they wear. But if they look good in any clothes, that's great. I think it's the worst if they don't look good in them.
Machida
Machida
lol.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
That's why I like clothes that aren't very designed. But designers have a mission to design, so they keep designing, right? I think that's great, but I want to look unpretentious and like universal clothes. I want to be someone who looks good with styling so that people think it's nice when they wear it. I'm not interested in limited editions. I want to buy in-line products and wear them casually.
Machida
Machida
In that case, the only things to consider are the material, texture, and size.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
When I choose clothes, I always look at them from that position. With all the different clothes out there, when I think I'm designing something, I pass it, pass it, pass it, next, next, next (laughs), and when I see an ordinary piece of clothing, I choose "This one!"
Machida
Machida
But these days, there are just too many ordinary clothes.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
That's not true.
Machida
Machida
Is that so?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
No, no. So I like going to Nike stores or Props Stores and buying clothes that look like they're just mass-produced and nothing special, because I think those are the best!
Machida
Machida
I heard about it from a friend who runs a second-hand clothing store called "I&I" and I thought that might be what it was. At first, they liked the "ordinary" American clothes that no one paid any attention to, and they sold those, but then the "ordinary" fashion boom came, and now, about 15 years later, there are no longer any American second-hand clothes that you could call "ordinary" if you went to America to look for them.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
I think it's important to pick out the clothes that are just ordinary, even though there are a lot of them. I sometimes go to "RAWDRIP" and I think it's a good store. It's similar to Ameyoko. Men's casual wear is based on American products, so when you go to a place like that, you're like, "This is good right now, and it's so cheap."
Machida
Machida
Are you going to update that sort of thing?
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This dish is made by mixing flat pasta from the Piedmont region of Northern Italy called Tajarin with beef ragu stewed in red wine. Mix well and enjoy. Tajarin with Beef Ragu ¥1,980
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
It's more like an update, for example, choosing from 300 different items. Japanese people in particular have almost no difference in physique, right? I think the subtle differences are important for Japanese people.
Machida
Machida
I see.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
Ah, I really wanted to eat this lemon pasta. And this pasta too! I think it's called yakisoba? I can't forget the texture.
Machida
Machida
The noodles are similar to Peyoung and are delicious.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
About 20 or 25 years ago, I got my first tie-up job, and the person in charge at the time was Kinoshita (Takahiro, Editor-in-Chief of POPEYE, currently at UNIQLO). It was a little-known brand, but I thought, well, let's give it a try. There were a lot of different clothes there, and Kinoshita said, "In these situations, it's best to choose the simplest clothes." I said "Yes," but I chose something that was not like that at all.
Machida
Machida
lol
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
In the end, I got into a quandary and it was pretty tough. But I remembered those words very well. That's exactly what I'm doing now. That's exactly what Monocle wanted me to do. The first thing Tyler (Brulé, editor-in-chief of Monocle) told me was, "This magazine targets people who earn more than 20 million yen a year. Please create a fashion page with everyday clothes that bankers, lawyers, and people like that wear." At that time, I had no money at all, so I didn't know what someone who earns 20 million yen a year was thinking, and I wondered if they would give me 20 million yen (laughs). But that experience was a great learning experience for me. Maybe I remembered Kinoshita's words, but I just kept choosing plain clothes every season.
Machida
Machida
That's how it was.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
There was a list of brands that I wanted to use, and there were a lot of items that the brand recommended, but I didn't need any of those. The editorial department asked me to borrow a navy blazer, a white T-shirt, and a plain crew neck sweater. That became the basis for doing "POPEYE".
Machida
Machida
Yeah yeah. But, Hase-kun, you weren't like that before.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
Not at all. It was a lot more crazy. When I was younger, for example, when Nike's Shox shoes were popular, I wore those and had an afro. So I dressed like that and just dealt with ordinary clothes, and I just accepted that as my job, but as I got older, I started to think that it was better that way. Now, on the contrary, I'm starting to want to wear Shox shoes again.
Machida
Machida
It's becoming the other way around.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
I've been in it many times now. But I think wearing Clarks, VANS, or Last Resort AB well is more fashion intellectual than wearing something eccentric like that. But nowadays, everyone seems too fashionable, so I really want to wear anti-fashion things. It's summer now, so I want to wear clothes that you can buy in American malls. I want to wear cheap, ordinary clothes like candy.
Houyhnhnm
Houyhnhnm
Oh, Dolce came out. Anyway, we've been talking for about three hours now.
Houyhnhnm
Houyhnhnm
This panna cotta is insanely delicious. By the way, what was your thought process behind creating the May issue of POPEYE, which you two worked on together recently?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
That feels like a culmination of my work in recent years. But the food world is really cutting edge and interesting now. There are many chefs and restaurants that use organic vegetables and are particular about ingredients, so it's fun everywhere. There's delicious wine. For example, even if you drink too much natural wine, you'll feel better the next day. Just starting to look at it from that perspective will change the world. It's probably a small-scale business, but young people are also taking the wine world seriously. There are a lot of people with good taste. Well, it's probably a world that people who don't know about it don't know anything about. But the wine world is constantly evolving. That's the dream part of the food and drink world. It's interesting, cool, and delicious. The world has become too big to make money, and it tends to get lost in the darkness of politics and economics.
Machida
Machida
As a reader, I wanted to see what POPEYE would be like if Hase-kun were to create it. It's not common for one stylist to create a feature for an entire magazine. A while ago, when we were drinking together, Hase-kun said that he thought the fashion sense of the modern era was not in the fashion industry but in the food and beverage industry, and I thought that was a really interesting perspective. That was the starting point for the feature.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
As for clothes, I've tried a lot of things, but I'm starting to get bored of them. I'm like, this is enough. If you go to LA, you can see workwear stores, right? I feel like wearing the kind of useless clothes they sell, especially in the summer. I thought it would be better to have good quality clothes that you can buy for $20 or $30.
Houyhnhnm
Houyhnhnm
Going back to the topic of editors, there's a theory that editors aren't very active on social media.
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
I really think so. Most of the editors around me don't do that.
Machida
Machida
I wonder what it is. Is there something about it that makes me feel like I shouldn't do it?
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
So even if we invite them to events and give them something, since no one else is really doing it, it doesn't really amount to advertising (laughs).
Machida
Machida
Does that seem arrogant to you? (Laughs)
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
No, I don't think so. Editors are modest people. They think it's better not to be in the spotlight because it's a job that puts others in the spotlight rather than putting themselves forward. Also, they have a place to express themselves. That's why I think they don't do it. I mean, even if they go to various places for research, I don't think editors would immediately post it on social media. However, sometimes editors-in-chief receive excessive service from clients. I'm sometimes surprised that they go that far for editors-in-chief even for magazines that don't sell very well!
Machida
Machida
Oh, is that so? I haven't used that kind of service much (laughs). I haven't been in the fashion industry for long, so to be honest, I don't really know. As for SNS, I don't use it actively, but I'm always looking for new material. I think it's like an occupational hazard. Also, as Hase-kun said, there are media outlets like "POPEYE" and "BRUTUS", and they may not upload their work because they satisfy their desire to express themselves there, but it may be that they simply hide it, as a habit of editors (laughs).
Hasegawa
Hasegawa
I do put things on Instagram while calculating it to a certain extent. But nowadays speed is important, so I think you need to make that judgment. There are some things that are better to put out right now. If you don't, you won't be able to beat other Instagrammers.
Machida
Machida
Maybe so.
INFORMATION
Osteria Comacina
Address: KUSUNOKI443, 2-6-12 Komachi, Kamakura City, Kanagawa Prefecture
Phone: 0467-23-2312
Hours: Lunch 11:30-13:30 (last order), Dinner 18:00-20:00 (last order)
Closed: Tuesdays and other irregular holidays
